{"comments":{"1183806":{"pb_id":"5929","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1183806","comment_id":"1183806","member_id":"5929","comment":"I'm glad Austin had some say especially after being snubbed for the Dream Mile earlier this year. Part of the bigger issue is the lack of transparency with invites to things like the Dream Mile, Brooks PR, Nike Elite Camp and the list goes on. I love all of these events but just wish it was somewhat more dry-cut on who gets in.","date_added":"Dec 4th 2014, 2:38am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-5929.png","pb_title":"DrBob","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=5929","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DrBobDP.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"2006"},"1183684":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1183684","comment_id":"1183684","member_id":"43715","comment":"

<\/a>Joe Lanzalotto, on , said:<\/p>

\nWatchout, where did you get the idea that Nike knew he was not going to run? That is simply untrue. And once invited Nike would never uninvite them nor should they.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nRe-read the posts, I clearly said IF<\/strong><\/span> Nike knew.
\n
\nI agree that Nike shouldn't uninvite a team they already invite. My comments (which I thought was obvious, given the context) were in regards to when NXN is going through the process of confirming\/inviting the teams, not after they have already sent out the invites.","date_added":"Dec 3rd 2014, 8:45pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"1183668":{"pb_id":"3300","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1183668","comment_id":"1183668","member_id":"3300","comment":"Watchout, where did you get the idea that Nike knew he was not going to run? That is simply untrue. And once invited Nike would never uninvite them nor should they.","date_added":"Dec 3rd 2014, 7:10pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Joe Lanzalotto","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=3300","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Joe-Lanzalotto.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"7321"},"1183664":{"pb_id":"43703","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1183664","comment_id":"1183664","member_id":"43703","comment":"

<\/a>watchout, on , said:<\/p>

\n My only issue is if Nike is inviting teams based on a lineup that they know is not going to be present at the national meet (and while I understand ORXC's comparison to relay teams, I feel like Nike can and should do better, particularly since in California Nike actually selects the teams rather than the teams all racing eachother head-to-head, and additionally because in XC two scoring alternates - the #6 and #7 runners - are already competing in the meet and we know just how much the team finish would change if you exclude up to two runners).
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nI thought CA did a power merge of the fastest 16-20 teams and took the top two as auto qualifiers. If that's what you have set up as your process, that's what you do. Sometimes something like this will happen. If Nike gets into the business of excluding teams based on who they project to run or not run, Nike is opening a can of worms they may not want. I like it that they set their criteria and stuck to those criteria.","date_added":"Dec 3rd 2014, 5:46pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"ORXCCoach","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43703","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43703","pb_wally_id":"1073472"},"1182485":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182485","comment_id":"1182485","member_id":"43715","comment":"

<\/a>cerutty fan, on , said:<\/p>

\nHe doesn't say which he'll be doing in that interview, only that it's unfortunate FL West and NXN are on the same day. It's a decision he has been dreading since this summer. He was really upset on the car ride home, trying to figure out how to make everyone happy and knowing that it would be impossible to do so. The final decision was not made until he got home and spoke with his parents. By then, we had already accepted the spot. There was never any "gaming the system" on our part.
\n
\nYou don't have to agree with the decision, but I think it should be respected. His parents have given him incredible support and guidance since he started as a club runner and clearly the path they have traveled together has led to some incredible accomplishments, with the best undoubtedly yet to come.
\n
\nIn the following interview, http:\/\/usa.milesplit...\/3#.VH4FHYdH2Rt<\/a> where he has had essentially no time to deliberate with his team, coaches or parents, and doesn't even know if the team had qualified, he does in fact state he'd be going to NXN with his team next if we qualified, or FL West if not.
\n
\nI understand the sentiment of others who feel we gamed the system or screwed over other teams like Kamiakin, Burbank, or Great Oak, but I'm hoping you guys can understand the position Austin is put in by NXN and FL having competing races. He can't make everyone happy. Fortunately, his coaches, his teammates, and his parents are happy with his decision and support him 100%. Hopefully that's enough to keep him happy too; he's a special talent and it'd be a shame to see him lose his passion for the sport.
\n
\nWithout Austin, we are still projected at 17th of the 22 teams that have qualified. http:\/\/usa.milesplit...ls#.VHwkJYdH2Rs<\/a> I can assure you we will do our absolute best to represent CA with pride.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nJust for the record, I don't have a problem with Tamagno's decision - he ran the state championship meet, and has no obligation to compete at any post season meet he doesn't want to. I also don't have a problem with anything you guys did as long as you communicated Tamagno's intentions to Nike when it was decided. My only issue is if Nike is inviting teams based on a lineup that they know is not going to be present at the national meet (and while I understand ORXC's comparison to relay teams, I feel like Nike can and should do better, particularly since in California Nike actually selects the teams rather than the teams all racing eachother head-to-head, and additionally because in XC two scoring alternates - the #6 and #7 runners - are already competing in the meet and we know just how much the team finish would change if you exclude up to two runners).
\n
\nTo compare it to another situation, what if Kamiakin and Summit had reversed their scoring at NXN-NW - Kamiakin then being the NW#2 team if Maton doesn't run. Then, consider if Maton had ran with his teammates but intended to run FLN and was only helping his team to qualify - Summit would have won NXN-NW, and Kamiakin would again be third, but Nike would have known that those teams aren't the same as the ones that would be competing at Nationals. In that situation, is it ok for Maton to ditch his team but Nike still invite Summit but not Kamiakin? Should Nike be allowing that, encouraging future athletes and teams to do the same - run at NXR, but skip out on NXN after qualifying because they prefer a competing national meet? Maybe next time, it'll be two or three front runners that decide they'd rather run FLN than as a team at NXN, and yet Nike will still invite a team that's missing their top 2-3 runners and wouldn't have qualified without them.
\n
\nBrea Olinda will still do fine at the meet - Meylan already posted his projections and I will probably have Brea around the same place as well - but other teams that could have done better will be missing from the meet.
\n
\n
\ntl;dr:
\nIf Tamagno wants to run FLN rather than NXN, there is nothing wrong with that decision.
\nIf Maton wants to run FLN rather than NXN, there is nothing wrong with that decision.
\nBoth are unfortunate from the perspective of NXN and having the national team championship mean something, but the athletes aren't doing anything wrong.
\n
\nIf Nike chooses to include teams that they know are going to be missing runners and allowing teams to qualify using better lineups than they'll be sending to their event, then that is Nike shooting themselves in the foot by denying other deserving athletes and teams the opportunity to compete in their meet when they are actively supporting that meet.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 11:26pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"1182479":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182479","comment_id":"1182479","member_id":"43715","comment":"

<\/a>DougB, on , said:<\/p>

\nWhen the committee convened on Saturday night, according to sources, Tamagno was confirmed for NXN. He had previously given interviews that said he would go with his team to NXN.
\n
\nSo yes... there is a serious possibility of Brea gaming the system here.
\n
\nThe team that is screwed because of this is Kamiakin WA, which was the next team on the bubble, not Great Oak.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nWhether or not that's true, Great Oak finishing 3rd in their region rather than 4th might have changed votes based on the strength of the rest of their season. We can't really say for sure who would or wouldn't have been invited had Tamagno not been included.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 11:19pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"1182472":{"pb_id":"3300","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182472","comment_id":"1182472","member_id":"3300","comment":"

<\/a>Scott Joerger, on , said:<\/p>

\nYes I'm bringing it up. Clearly having two national championships is a factor at the root of the problem. At the end of my post I also say I don't think it will happen anytime soon (if ever). I also wasn't blaming one company or the other.
\n
\nI'm not trying to solve it here, but the problem isn't one kids judgement, it's two conflicting events. That's the point.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nYes it is a matter of the athlete's judgment since the two events conflict. Whether you consider that right or wrong is not the issue: the events conflict and they are going to stay that way since again, the offer was made and declined.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 10:22pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Joe Lanzalotto","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=3300","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Joe-Lanzalotto.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"7321"},"1182469":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182469","comment_id":"1182469","member_id":"4588","comment":"

<\/a>Joe Lanzalotto, on , said:<\/p>

\nSeriously? You're bringing this up? The the 10,000th time: it was OFFERED; Footlocker said no.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nYes I'm bringing it up. Clearly having two national championships is a factor at the root of the problem. At the end of my post I also say I don't think it will happen anytime soon (if ever). I also wasn't blaming one company or the other.
\n
\nI'm not trying to solve it here, but the problem isn't one kids judgement, it's two conflicting events. That's the point.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 10:02pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"388","email_settings":"8191","email":"scott.joerger@gmail.com","address":"ScottJoerger","gender":"m","member_id":"4588","member_name":"Scott Joerger","avatar_location":"av-4588.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"},"1182468":{"pb_id":"3300","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182468","comment_id":"1182468","member_id":"3300","comment":"

<\/a>Scott Joerger, on , said:<\/p>

\nI think we need to keep the Tamagno \/ Brea Olinda situation in perspective. It's not as if Austin went to the NXN regional to help his team qualify just to walk away. He went to the CA championships and lead his team to the D3 state championships - no doubt a season long goal - and they did fulfill that goal as a team. Now he is going on to run at Foot Locker to compete for a national title which has been a post-season goal of his.
\n
\nKeep in mind that Brea Olinda is a top-10, maybe top-5, CA team without Austin Tamagno. However, it's pretty clear that they would not likely have made the NXN cut without him.
\n
\nThere two are major problems contributing to this situation (already beaten to death on these boards):
\n
\n1. There is no unified national championship. <\/strong>
\n
\nFootlocker has a long tradition and I don't blame Austin for wanting to go after that title. NXN is a great event which is building it's own tradition. Doesn't Foot Locker sell a gazillion Nikes? It would seem that these two could get together and make one supermeet.
\n
\n
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nSeriously? You're bringing this up? The the 10,000th time: it was OFFERED; Footlocker said no.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 9:49pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Joe Lanzalotto","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=3300","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Joe-Lanzalotto.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"7321"},"1182412":{"pb_id":"50627","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182412","comment_id":"1182412","member_id":"50627","comment":"

<\/a>DougB, on , said:<\/p>

\nI think this is the interview that people are talking about:
\n
\nhttp:\/\/usa.milesplit...no#.VH4AYTHF8To<\/a>
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nHe doesn't say which he'll be doing in that interview, only that it's unfortunate FL West and NXN are on the same day. It's a decision he has been dreading since this summer. He was really upset on the car ride home, trying to figure out how to make everyone happy and knowing that it would be impossible to do so. The final decision was not made until he got home and spoke with his parents. By then, we had already accepted the spot. There was never any "gaming the system" on our part.
\n
\nYou don't have to agree with the decision, but I think it should be respected. His parents have given him incredible support and guidance since he started as a club runner and clearly the path they have traveled together has led to some incredible accomplishments, with the best undoubtedly yet to come.
\n
\nIn the following interview, http:\/\/usa.milesplit...\/3#.VH4FHYdH2Rt<\/a> where he has had essentially no time to deliberate with his team, coaches or parents, and doesn't even know if the team had qualified, he does in fact state he'd be going to NXN with his team next if we qualified, or FL West if not.
\n
\nI understand the sentiment of others who feel we gamed the system or screwed over other teams like Kamiakin, Burbank, or Great Oak, but I'm hoping you guys can understand the position Austin is put in by NXN and FL having competing races. He can't make everyone happy. Fortunately, his coaches, his teammates, and his parents are happy with his decision and support him 100%. Hopefully that's enough to keep him happy too; he's a special talent and it'd be a shame to see him lose his passion for the sport.
\n
\nWithout Austin, we are still projected at 17th of the 22 teams that have qualified. http:\/\/usa.milesplit...ls#.VHwkJYdH2Rs<\/a> I can assure you we will do our absolute best to represent CA with pride.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 7:13pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"cerutty fan","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=50627","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=50627","pb_wally_id":"1212787"},"1182410":{"pb_id":"43703","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182410","comment_id":"1182410","member_id":"43703","comment":"How is what Brea has done any different than using a relay pool in a state qualifying meet? You use who you want to use in order to qualify, then you use whoever is on your relay card in the state meet?
\n
\nIt seems to me that he ran for his team and helped them to qualify as an auto, and they deserve that spot no matter who they run at NXN because they earned it last Saturday under Nike's rules. I would not feel that way were they an at-large team, in which case I would make certain that the seven who put that team in contention for the at-large ran in the meet.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 6:55pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"ORXCCoach","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43703","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43703","pb_wally_id":"1073472"},"1182404":{"pb_id":"43675","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182404","comment_id":"1182404","member_id":"43675","comment":"NXN is Nike's party and they can do whatever they want, or make any "rules" NXN so desires.
\n
\nI assume the California "power merge" is being done by NXN (Nike) people who have no conflict of interest in the outcome ... and they can make the power merge anything want to if they think it is best for NXN ... not making it public (especially for the schools involved) says something, but it doesn't matter.
\n
\nDon't know what happened between the Brea Olinda people, Austin Tamagno and the NXN people ... but once again, it doesn't matter because NXN is Nike's party ... and NXN could have done something about it IF they wanted to ... The outcome says Nike doesn't care.
\n
\nThe precedent of having the top runner drop-out for a contending team to attend another event instead of NXN (originally NTN) has already occurred and been OK'ed by Nike ... In 2005, the top runner for Lakeville North MN (who was also a Footlocker finalist) did not run NXN (NTN) because she was in a family wedding scheduled for the same day (apparently lots of people knew about it except me and my projections) ... the "team" won the selection spot and they were allowed to do what they wanted ... Seems like Brea Olinda was given the same option.
\n
\nEven if Brea Olinda was not honest with NXN, NXN had time to do something about it once they found out ... The precedent has been extended.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 6:28pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Bill Meylan","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43675","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Bill-Meylan.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1073444"},"1182401":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182401","comment_id":"1182401","member_id":"4588","comment":"

<\/a>cerutty fan, on , said:<\/p>

\nDo you have a link to the interviews (apparently there are multiple?) saying he'd go to NXN if his team qualified?
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nThese are the two I saw which was right after the state final: http:\/\/usa.milesplit...\/3#.VH4D_fnF8aY<\/a>","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 6:34pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"388","email_settings":"8191","email":"scott.joerger@gmail.com","address":"ScottJoerger","gender":"m","member_id":"4588","member_name":"Scott Joerger","avatar_location":"av-4588.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"},"1182400":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182400","comment_id":"1182400","member_id":"44418","comment":"I think this is the interview that people are talking about:
\n
\nhttp:\/\/usa.milesplit...no#.VH4AYTHF8To<\/a>","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 6:25pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"1182399":{"pb_id":"50627","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182399","comment_id":"1182399","member_id":"50627","comment":"

<\/a>DougB, on , said:<\/p>

\nWhen the committee convened on Saturday night, according to sources, Tamagno was confirmed for NXN. He had previously given interviews that said he would go with his team to NXN.
\n
\nSo yes... there is a serious possibility of Brea gaming the system here.
\n
\nThe team that is screwed because of this is Kamiakin WA, which was the next team on the bubble, not Great Oak.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nDo you have a link to the interviews (apparently there are multiple?) saying he'd go to NXN if his team qualified?","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 6:20pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"cerutty fan","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=50627","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=50627","pb_wally_id":"1212787"},"1182395":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182395","comment_id":"1182395","member_id":"4588","comment":"

<\/a>DougB, on , said:<\/p>

\nA truthful declaration of what your intentions are in a timely manner is not unreasonable.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nI agree that it's not. Put some parameters around it and require it of all participants and I've got no problem with it.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 5:53pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"388","email_settings":"8191","email":"scott.joerger@gmail.com","address":"ScottJoerger","gender":"m","member_id":"4588","member_name":"Scott Joerger","avatar_location":"av-4588.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"},"1182393":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182393","comment_id":"1182393","member_id":"44418","comment":"A truthful declaration of what your intentions are in a timely manner is not unreasonable.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 5:50pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"1182392":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182392","comment_id":"1182392","member_id":"4588","comment":"

<\/a>DougB, on , said:<\/p>

\nWhen the committee convened on Saturday night, according to sources, Tamagno was confirmed for NXN. He had previously given interviews that said he would go with his team to NXN.
\n
\nSo yes... there is a serious possibility of Brea gaming the system<\/strong> here.
\n
\nThe team that is screwed because of this is Kamiakin WA, which was the next team on the bubble, not Great Oak.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nBut does "the system" really rely on what a kid says in an interview? If every athlete had to sign a statement of intent or something, I could see that as a "system" (and an administrative nightmare). But even then it's a slippery slope - where do you draw that line? Every #1? #2? Nationally ranked athletes?
\n
\nPerhaps Brea took advantage of the cards they were dealt, but don't blame them - change the rules.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 5:36pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"388","email_settings":"8191","email":"scott.joerger@gmail.com","address":"ScottJoerger","gender":"m","member_id":"4588","member_name":"Scott Joerger","avatar_location":"av-4588.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"},"1182390":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182390","comment_id":"1182390","member_id":"44418","comment":"When the committee convened on Saturday night, according to sources, Tamagno was confirmed for NXN. He had previously given interviews that said he would go with his team to NXN.
\n
\nSo yes... there is a serious possibility of Brea gaming the system here.
\n
\nThe team that is screwed because of this is Kamiakin WA, which was the next team on the bubble, not Great Oak.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 5:09pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"1182359":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182359","comment_id":"1182359","member_id":"43715","comment":"

<\/a>Scott Joerger, on , said:<\/p>

\nYes, my calculation was off the top 20. I just didn't see the official one.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nI don't think an official one was ever posted.
\n
\nHowever, the power merge scores are second to the head to head results. All the other teams ahead of Great Oak in the power merge would be Division 1 teams they beat, meaning that Great Oak would be considered the third California team if Tamagno wasn't included.
\n
\nIt's a shame that Nike didn't catch this in time, or if they did it's a catastrophe that they invited a team to NXN based on a lineup that won't be at NXN. The California situation is already less than ideal, but it makes absolute sense to ensure that the teams that are in the running to go to Portland are going to be there intact, and are wanting to go, before inviting them to NXN based on the results of the state meet. And unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it's the latter as Tamagno would have been an individual qualifier for NXN, so I have to think the CA Nike rep talked to Tamagno to see if he was going to NXN even before the team situation had even begun to get sorted out (Tamagno had the #7 time at the state meet, and the last individual qualifier was #8 Jacob Ogden).","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 4:21pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"1182357":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182357","comment_id":"1182357","member_id":"4588","comment":"

<\/a>King999, on , said:<\/p>

\nOkay a couple of things.
\n
\n1. This has hardly been beaten to death , how could I have done that yet as I barely knew all of this , hahaha.
\n
\n2. Running the State Championship and winning and then notifying NXN properly , would <\/strong>have made it easy for NXN to evaluate them with him out.
\n
\n3. THAT should <\/strong>have been done anyway
\n
\n4. Palimmer and I are buddies, I hope anyway, but I disagree slightly on this TEAM over anything else philosophy ALL the time , especially for seniors , and here is why. Many times a guy is asked to scarifice even clear title wins to run with the pack or PULL guys out and along. I think when we get to this point and it is known up front, I have way less issues with a guy running FL than I used to.
\n
\n
\n5. NXN, if you cannot see yourself as a top 1-2-3 that with some luck you could <\/strong>win? I think it's okay for a kid to run FL, although , in THIS case, he is NOT a senior is he, he is a junior and for that reason, he could <\/strong>wait , run one for the team and then opt out his senior year. All that happened here was an avoidable mess, part of that is on NXN, part on kid\/team. But XNX should <\/strong>have a policy clearly in place that says if one of your season long top 3 opts out and is NOT injured, his impact on the team's qualifications are subject to review.
\n
\nIn fact I like that so much, that is how it should <\/strong>read!!
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nCoulda Shoulda Woulda - These are all opinions and possibilities. My point is the broken system made this situation inevitable.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 4:15pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"388","email_settings":"8191","email":"scott.joerger@gmail.com","address":"ScottJoerger","gender":"m","member_id":"4588","member_name":"Scott Joerger","avatar_location":"av-4588.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"},"1182356":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182356","comment_id":"1182356","member_id":"4588","comment":"

<\/a>Greg Beal, on , said:<\/p>

\nNot that I've seen, Scott. Sometimes a version of it has appeared at Hank Lawson's Lynbrook Cross Country site. Easy enough to calculate - simply take the top 16 (or is it 20?) teams in the mega-merge and perform what Rich G describes as a power merge.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nYes, my calculation was off the top 20. I just didn't see the official one.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 4:05pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"388","email_settings":"8191","email":"scott.joerger@gmail.com","address":"ScottJoerger","gender":"m","member_id":"4588","member_name":"Scott Joerger","avatar_location":"av-4588.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"},"1182355":{"pb_id":"45400","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182355","comment_id":"1182355","member_id":"45400","comment":"

<\/a>Scott Joerger, on , said:<\/p>

\nDid the official NXN merge get published somewhere and I didn't see it? I see multiple references to Great Oak being left out but I haven't seen any evidence the they were top 4 in the merge.
\n
\nMy very unofficial merge has them 5th
\nhttp:\/\/www.runnerspa...dpost&p=1180632<\/a>
\n
\nRecord Timing's Mega-merge show's them 6th:
\nhttp:\/\/rtspt.com\/eve...xc2014\/boys.htm<\/a>
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nNot that I've seen, Scott. Sometimes a version of it has appeared at Hank Lawson's Lynbrook Cross Country site. Easy enough to calculate - simply take the top 16 (or is it 20?) teams in the mega-merge and perform what Rich G describes as a power merge.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 4:02pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Greg Beal","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=45400","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Greg-Beal.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1108424"},"1182354":{"pb_id":"45400","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182354","comment_id":"1182354","member_id":"45400","comment":"

<\/a>King999, on , said:<\/p>

\nFirst of all these absurd weather calculations especially for Calif. running are just that, a waste of time and absurd.
\n
\nTons of races all year in different groupings are run with temp. variations from AM to PM
\n
\nThis is over analysis and excuse making disguised.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nGuess you've never noticed the difference running a race (or workout) in 50 degrees in the morning and 65 degrees in the afternoon. Maybe 5-10 seconds difference in a 5K is not something you care about.
\n
\nYou're right - meets are run over long periods with changing weather and temp conditions - but it doesn't matter so long as each race is a separate, fair competition.
\n
\nIn California, different conditions only matter in terms of NXN qualifications.
\n
\nSince I don't root for any of the D1 teams, I'm not making excuses, just pointing out that the situation is considerably less than ideal.","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 3:58pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Greg Beal","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=45400","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Greg-Beal.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1108424"},"1182353":{"pb_id":"68733","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1182353","comment_id":"1182353","member_id":"68733","comment":"Okay a couple of things.
\n
\n1. This has hardly been beaten to death , how could I have done that yet as I barely knew all of this , hahaha.
\n
\n2. Running the State Championship and winning and then notifying NXN properly , would have made it easy for NXN to evaluate them with him out.
\n
\n3. THAT should have been done anyway
\n
\n4. Palimmer and I are buddies, I hope anyway, but I disagree slightly on this TEAM over anything else philosophy ALL the time , especially for seniors , and here is why. Many times a guy is asked to scarifice even clear title wins to run with the pack or PULL guys out and along. I think when we get to this point and it is known up front, I have way less issues with a guy running FL than I used to.
\n
\n
\n5. NXN, if you cannot see yourself as a top 1-2-3 that with some luck you could win? I think it's okay for a kid to run FL, although , in THIS case, he is NOT a senior is he, he is a junior and for that reason, he could wait , run one for the team and then opt out his senior year. All that happened here was an avoidable mess, part of that is on NXN, part on kid\/team. But XNX should have a policy clearly in place that says if one of your season long top 3 opts out and is NOT injured, his impact on the team's qualifications are subject to review.
\n
\nIn fact I like that so much, that is how it should read!!","date_added":"Dec 2nd 2014, 3:50pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":302788,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"King999","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=68733","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/King999.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1493915"}},"last_id":"1182353","url":"comments.php?item_type=news&item_id=302788&item_url=eprofile.php?event_id=13"}